saffronhare | More adventures in thought experiments!

I've been doing some more reading in Prometheus Rising and want to see if I can sort some of this out by putting words to it. This is a public post, so I'm not discouraging commentary; I just don't expect it.

On altered mental states
RAW offers a lot of advice that hinges on getting stoned or high. I'd wondered about this and

featherynscale pointed out that it has quite a bit to do with release of control/getting past programming, etc. Drinking also works. But I think I'd rather get to a place where I can remove filters for a while without chemical assistance -- seems like, for a control freak like me, relying upon chemical crutches to excuse myself for letting go could get really unhealthy really fast. I've noticed that simply being around people who help me feel safe makes a tremendous difference. Oddly enough, these same people are folks that lots of other folks consider terrifying. I guess part of feeling safe is being confident that I can't really hurt any of them.

On aggression and territorialism
The first exercise in this secion reads like so: "Whenever you meet a young male or female, ask yourself unconcsiously, 'If it came to hand-to-hand combat, could I beat him/her'? Then try to determine how much of your behavior is based on unconsciously asking and answering that question via pre-verbal 'body language.'" Upon reading this exercise, I realized I've been living that thought experiment -- consciously -- for at least 25 years. This is a circuit I know and love well. I understand that I need to develop "alternate response strategies"...but the thought of losing something that has served me so well is terrifying. How do I win if I don't think about power? (Yes, the irony in that is stifling.)

It's also very humbling to think that perhaps the stuff that fills me with pride is not really the manifestation of my own superiority -- just a particular type of programming that has equipped me to function very well in the world we live in.

On change and control
I get the feeling this evolution is what "higher self" (or however you want to put it) was guiding me toward when I realized I need to resign from West Point. I was developing into an excellent manager of violence. Imagine how much more mired I'd be if I'd stayed.

I also suspect that earlier decisions that I'll learn to "go with the flow" are really still grasping at the thought that I still have some control -- like I have a sail and can skillfully manage to ride the wind to wherever it is I am intending to go. It's false...and not really the lesson. I have to be willing to cast myself upon the waves and see where the ocean wants to take me instead -- a lesson in submission to the will of the universe, not an expectation that the universe needs me as a partner or cares what I want. Yet?

This is awful. I am literally shaking and feeling close to tears as I type this. If measurement of discomfort is an indicator of being on the right track...I'm there, man.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I find it interesting that every time we talk about this, you talk about "losing" something, or "giving up" something. Why lose anything? Exchanging exclusive use of one behavior pattern for exclusive use of a different behavior pattern doesn't make you any more adaptive, in my eyes.

On altered mental states, there's no reason why they have to be induced by an external chemical, most of us are capable of getting to altered mental states solely on internal chemical changes (which is generally safer and more useful anyway). However, since you've identified need for control as a major issue, you may wish to venture down the other path periodically - it's been my experience that few things say "I give up" like dropping a geltab or two. (Again, not that that's the only or the best way to get to that state. It is just a fast way, and damned near impossible to control to any meaningful degree.)

Just my .02 for the day. (It would have been .03 or .04, but as you note, this is a public post :) )

I recognize the limitations of those words, but they come from my combative definition of life. It's win or lose, give up or take possession of, all or nothing. See? What I'm shooting for is an accumulation of response strategies, rather than a swapping of them. Gotta change my words so I can change my mind (reading the Semantic ciruit now -- the funnest place so far, even though there's half the book left to go).

Is there no room in your world for non-zero-sum games?

In my world to date? No. I'm surprised you even ask. I've never kidded you when I commented that my desire for control and drive for victory are nearly pathological. I suspect that the warrior mindset is the product of lifetimes of programming. The prospect of changing it -- even though I'm choosing the change -- leaves me more terrified than I can express. Maybe that's why I draw such comfort and strength from dedication to the Pillar of Mercy. (Boy, there's a muddying of the conceptual waters.)

I wouldn't have asked, except that I know that I've played some non-zero-sum games with you, so it seemed to me that you might be aware of their existence :)

And no, it actually makes ten tons of sense to me that you would draw strength and comfort from your dedication. You now have something larger than yourself to emulate, and from which to take direction. There are a fair number of people who find it easier to do what they want to do when someone/something else is telling them to do it. (I think Carey's right about what your next book should be... I was thinking of giving you something about the effect of language on perception, but hey. Hers is more fun anyway.)

Stop. Yer scarin' me. But now I want to know what it is.

Anyway, I don't look at the PoM as telling me what to do. It feels more like affirmation that when I don't think I have enough strength within myself to do something, I have a well to draw upon. And that if I can force myself to do this for myself, imagine what I'll be able to accomplish for the forces of good in the future. Maybe it's the same thing you're saying in different language, but it feels a bit different to me. [Semantics -- yay. That's stuff I could write a book about.]

mmmmmm.....semantics. In your journal and mine today.
I may need to get a towel.

One of the few areas of obscure knowledge I can take all you geeks on in. Wait. That's the whole power-and-winning thing, rearing it's ugly head again. Damn.

You're all cocksuckers and/or assholes. And I mean that in a submissive and loving and merciful way. Really.

::grin::

Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns: The Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism

I worship your icon. Have I mentioned that?

Gee, thanks! At work I browse using Firebird with images disabled (to avoid any more scary and/or embarrassing mistakes like following links from

sannion's LJ)... I think the QOW-esque is the current default? I can make you one... maybe a homicidal Kestrel with black-red shoulder length hair, flight goggles, and a trenchcoat? :)

That would rule. :) I would kiss your feet, or whatever the appropriate equivalent to that is for you.

And

sannion has something about dolphin-fucking today.
*yick*

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yup.
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broken.

I'm pasting in here some stuff from the last two days of The Pagan Update (TM) that seems particularly timely and worth remembering. Please note that sometime very soon I'm going to transfer this entry (with some, but not all comments purged) to Memories for safekeeping and future reference.

The Solar Key: Dancing With Power (Monday, December 29, 2003)

Okay, okay, we all know we're supposed to "speak truth to power." Just like we're all supposed to eat our vegetables and come to a full stop at intersections. Right. This solar degree is about an entirely different approach - a much more real-world one. It's about getting into bed with power.

So before you leap in with both feet (or whatever), a few words of caution. Use your head as you approach this. There's real hazard, and because you're going to find the risk intoxicating, you may be tempted to take some stupid chances. If you are overconfident you will endanger your fortunes, your person, and your reputation.
Are you getting the picture?

It's a dance, and like all dances it's a dynamic balance between opposing forces. The forces I'm talking about are sovereignty and surrender. You start by getting grounded in the knowledge you've gathered from life, and by getting a sense of how far that knowledge can reliably take you. You use your understanding, especially the nonverbal kind. You employ timing - being in the right place at the exactly right instant. And you remember to communicate, to correct other people's perceptions of you.

If you do all that, you'll interact with the powerful - sometimes from a position of extreme apparent vulnerability - without fear. This experience is exquisitely satisfying, accelerates your growth in wisdom, instructs you in how to wield power yourself . . . and frees you to relinquish power when you get tired of it. [sun in 7° Capricorn]

The Solar Key: Under and Loving It (Tuesday, December 30, 2003)

Today's solar degree is over the top. Or under the "top" . . . The karmic lessons of voluntary submission - its vulnerability and its power - are energized today. The dangers are obvious, I guess: domination, codependence, even forms of enslavement. The dark and ugly side of being the bottom emerges, if you come to it from low self-esteem.

But it really doesn't have to be that way. Can you find the pride and power to know what a gift you are giving, when you give yourself totally in the presence of rightful authority? If so, the whole quality of the experience changes. Slavery gives way to service.

Domination is replaced by the turn-on of voluntary submission. Codependence flips, and the flip side is nonverbal communication. And the transformation wrought in you is that you stand to become totally unafraid of power. [sun in 8° Capricorn]

More adventures in thought experiments!

no subject

"losing" and "giving up"

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Re: non-zero games

Next book?

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Woah.

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For posterity's sake.