For the Record

[saffronhare]

This is copied from ursulav because she said it so well. I'll be revising my will/living will before my next birthday to reflect this as well, and have already put it in a letter to my parents.

I'm thinking that our Memorial Day SOS is going to have a lot to do with CPR/First Aid training and updating/creating our living wills.

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For the record--not that my parents are that crazy, but since Congress and Dubya seem to have a wild hare up their asses on this one, I figure I might as well state it as [publicly] as possible--if I have no brain and am in a persistant vegitative state, LET ME DIE, ALREADY.

Seriously. If anybody's trying to make an argument like "She might not be totally brain dead!" frankly, that strikes me as even worse. Mother of god, at least people in jail for 15 years can walk around the cell and read books. If I'm that far down, let me go. Being a tiny, non-sentient voice crying in the dark of a broken brain is not how I wish to spend my allotted span.

The really noxious thing about all this is that we're even having the discussion. Generally the discussion is good, but in this case, it's just idiocy. This ought to be a non-issue. It should be absolutely and positively none of the government's business. We really need a party in power that's opposed to big government interefering in people's personal lives.

Like...oh...there was a party like that once...can't remember the name...

Comments

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

My biggest issue is that they have to starve her to death. If she is still thinking/feeling, I would MUCH prefer Euthenasia.

I hope if I have a stroke, I am in Amsterdam or something where they can just mainline me with Absinthe or something. Starving to death after 15 years of rotting is just really uncivilized of us.

That is where my sympathy for the parents comes in. I would put a child 'to sleep', but starving them to death is inhumane. Of course, just a month or two ago one gal woke up out of a coma after 25 years. She was 40-something, but still thought she was a teenager. The story gave me chills. It would be Ironic if Terri woke up in the middle of all this. ;-) Although I believe there is a difference between Coma and Brain Dead.

[saffronhare.livejournal.com]

I agree that all those decisions are horrifying. If anything like that ever happens, I'll have to trust my family to make choices for me -- which is why I want them to know my preferences beforehand.

However, I think the gubmint has no business imposing a decision.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

Bryce and I had a long discussion about this when Conner was taken off life support... it seems to me that when a brain is 'dead', it is a misnomer, as it does not rot or become unusable. Instead, I believe that it is simply in stasis, much like a heart that has 'stopped' during a heart attack.

We are now able to re-start hearts. And I belive at some point, we will be able to re-start stalled brains. Thus the dilemna with me. I would prefer not to be vegitative... although I also think it would be devestating to people pulling the plug if they figured out how to restart the brain six months later. 8-(

Actually, I'm wondering if they don't already have an idea of how to 'de-fibulate' the brain, but don't do it because of ethical dilemnas... there seems to be a lot of theological hoo-doo in the medical profession.

[agrnmn.livejournal.com]

If they do have an reasonable idea to jump start a brain, which I doubt, how do you test it? Theological hoo-doo may play into it but testing on people requires consent and consent requires a reasonable understanding of what is being consented to. I am not sure the medical professionals themselves have a reasonable idea of what is being consented to.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

I figure testing on mice, then rats, then primates, like they do now (right or wrong, we already have this going on). With people, it becomes the consent of the guardian, just as current consent to turn off respirators or remove feeding tubes (which has been done many many times before, during, and after Terri, the only thing that makes her special is that it is contested between relatively newly wed husband, and parents.

And I agree, I don't think they know the implications of trying to re-start the brain. I expect that advances in this area will be made in Europe long before Americans could get through the legal/moral/ethical tangle we have.

People are already ape about stem cells, gene therapy, and DNA. I figure that re-starting brains will be similarly seen as "playing God", although they used to say that about re-starting hearts. 8-/

[agrnmn.livejournal.com]

The problem with testing is that we don't really a have a good grasp of what biolgically makes us conscious vs. animals, adn we'd have to test on "brain dead" which means geting prior consent (prior to going brain dead) or getting it from relatives, would it really be any different than what is going on in FL?

Anyway I think most of the tehological attacks come from outside the medical research community and play into the ethical concerns within the community.

The only thing to fear is other people's fear.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

Now there's a good point... how much 'hoo-doo' is personal belief, and how much is fear of backlash from the community?

I worked with a few righteous doctors, but it is hard to tell if it was their theological view, or their professional voice giving answers that will keep the medical community out of trouble. ;-)

[kittenpants.livejournal.com]

Take a look at the brain scans in this case. Do some research on what normal or even comatose brain scans look like. It makes it all pretty clear to me.

She's never coming back. She'll never "wake up". The brain is dead.

And why the @#$% is euthanasia illegal in this country? ARGH. Starvation is fine, but mercy is illegal. WTF.

[diermuid.livejournal.com]

The brain is 'dead' to today's science. Thus my mention of a brain jump-start. Not currently feasible, but since the brain does not rot or go septic, I have a feeling that in the future, there will be a re-initialization procedure. The problem is, is grey matter like RAM where memory is lost when it goes dead? Or is it like flash memory where it is burned into the mush? ::grin::

That being said, I do not expect the technology to re-boot clinically dead brains to develop within our lifetime. Let Terri die, and do it humanely. That's that Hoo-doo I didn't like about medicine, they get very caught up in the Hippocratic Oath, and not using their knowledge to harm. That's fine when you are arguing against genocide, but I think it is misapplied in 'living dead' cases... or in so many of the cases I witnessed while working in healthcare. Old women (and some men) pleading with me to let them die still haunt me... they were close to dead at the hospice, and the hospice would ship them to the hospital where they would get rehab'd into better shape, then shipped back to the hospice. F-cking idiotic, and inhumane as hell.

And then they try to guilt old folks into not shooting themselves when they get old. Gah!!! I'm not sure what my opinion will be at 80, but for now, I hope I am not left to get bedsores... if all the kids are grown and taking care of themselves, I would have to make sure I have an option -other- than being 'living dead'.

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

Mac, have you looked at the actual brain scans from Ms. Schiavo? We're not talking about abstract cases here.

I'll see if I can find some link... here, try that one, and if not look up "schiavo cortex scan OR fluid" in Google.

I waffled back and forth on this one for a while, but the evidence of the neutral guardians, medical staff who have actually examined her, and the full video (not the "tracking a balloon" edit) all seem to agree that she is non-responsive and extremely unlikely to improve. (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/20/regarding-the-cat-scan-of-terri-schiavos-brain/) ()

Long & Loud Rant

[teross50.livejournal.com]

Having worked in adult ICU for half of my medical career This is always an issue that gets to me The main reason I switched to working in peds was because of scenarios like this one.
This is not about the quality of life or the possible miracle of renewing life this is simply about the guilt of part of the family not being able to let go
I have seen way too many clinically brain dead patients. Atrophied muscles constricting as internal organs slowly die out.

Yes we all want hope and want our person to be that miracle. Yet it has been proven time and gain in this case that this poor body is not going to return. Her spirit is on hold waiting to move on.

Kill Bill was fiction, this is real life. Even more importantly I detest the portrayal given out by congressman, who has no clue how the scenario works.
Infact the tube is not just yanked out and the patient left to die in a room. They patient is maintained as long as there are respirations and a heart beat. The patient is given pain meds to keep the patient comfortable and pain free.

For me I do not want to be trapped because my family does not have the courage to let me go. I have told them I will haunt the hell out of anybody who keeps me here longer than I need to be.
There are times that loving someone is letting them go.

We will not even get into the ethics of Congress dictating policy over the wishes of a spouse.
It just galls me that the “Right for life Crowd” is all up in this. Yet they are all about the death penalty for felon. Is there a wall in their mouths so they have to talk out of both sides?

Further gripping my black ass!!!! These jerks can come together on a Sunday during spring break in an emergency session to say no you can not die yet and they can not fix shit else that is really wrong with this country or this world .

Excuse me but WTF is up with that??!!!

Ok, deep breath and back to living my own life now. Just needed to go there

I Am Very Depressed and Angry About This!

[nodeal57.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said, O Saffron One. I am very depressed about this whole thing (as if I needed anything more) and I feel like Peter Finch in "Network." I can only grieve for what evil people are trying to do with this tragic situation.

Re: I Am Very Depressed and Angry About This!

[saffronhare.livejournal.com]

I think this is certainly one area where the Europeans have it over on us. You know, aside from chocolate.

They're so much better at talking about sex and death than we Americans are. Must be that Puritan streak or something.